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Arnold Margolin The Jewish Chronicle 16May1919 Interview on Petliura
The pogroms have been perpetrated by the people of the Black Hundred
and by provocateurs for the purpose of discrediting the Ukrainian
government.
An Interview with
Dr. Arnold Margolin in 1919
The Jewish Chronicle
London
May 16, 1919
Dr. Arnold Margolin, Head of the Ukrainian Diplomatic Mission in London,
Chairman of the "Jewish Territorial Society" in the Ukraine, was born in
Kiev (in 1877), attended Kiev University, and established himself in Kiev
as an attorney. Since 1903 he had been noted as a counsel for the
defense of the injured in pogrom excesses. Besides, he participated as a
counsel for the defense in many agrarian and political court trials. For
his revelations in the well-known Beilis case he was prosecuted by the
Minister of Justice of that time, Shcheglovitov, with the result that the
further practice of law was forbidden to him. He has taken part in the
Ukrainian Movement for many years, and has occupied himself with social
problems in the Ukraine. After the Revolution he was a member of the
Central Committee of the Socialist-Federalist Party, and for a time he
was Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs. In the spring of 1919 he went
to Paris as a member of the Ukrainian Peace Delegation. Since January
1920 he has been the head of the Ukrainian Diplomatic Mission in London.
What is the attitude of the Jews toward the new Ukrainian State?
On the question of independence of the Ukraine the Jews
were split into two camps. On the one side there were the
assimilated Jews who having been brought up in the
All-Russian political spirit took a stand hostile to the
new Ukrainian State. On the other side there were the
majority of the Jews – the nationalists, Zionists and the
Jewish Socialist Parties – who declared their sympathy for
Ukrainian endeavors. The Jews who were themselves an
oppressed nation welcomed with sympathy the national
struggle of the Ukrainians.
The Jews were also split as to their attitude toward the
socialist program of the new state. The left wing of the
Bund and Poalej-Zion went hand-in-hand with the left
Ukrainian parties that were for the exclusion of the
bourgeoisie from the government. The majority of Jews were
on the side of those Ukrainian parties that interceded for
the West-European political system. But in spite of these
differences, almost all Jewish parties and organizations
recognized the right of the Ukrainian nation to its
independence.
What is the attitude of the Ukrainian government toward the Jews?
In the Ukraine which together with Galicia has a population
of 40 millions there live 3 1/2 million (8%) Jews. After
the Revolution the ruling power in the Ukraine rested in a
parliament in which all parties of the country, including
Jewish, were represented. That parliament ("Tsentralna
Rada") granted the Jews more freedom and rights than they
had anywhere in Europe at any time. All national
minorities, of course Jews too, were granted autonomy. It
must be stressed also that the Central Council (the
Parliament) set up a Supreme Court to which those lawyers
were appointed as judges, who had had courage to take a
stand against the Russian government during the Beilis
trial.
Here Margolin narrated the fate of the Ukraine after the overthrow of the
Tsentralna Rada and during the rule of Hetman Skoropadksy, and then
continued:
Hetman's rule lasted only eight months. [After its
overthrow] the Petlura Government renewed the autonomy of
national minorities and again appointed Jewish ministers,
viz. Mr. Goldelman and myself. Jews belong also to the
diplomatic missions which have been sent abroad by the
Ukrainian government. The noted Jewish historian, Dr.
Wischintzer, one of the editors of the Jewish Encyclopedia,
is the secretary of the Ukrainian legation in England.
How does this government's attitude agree with the fact of anti-Jewish
pogroms?
There is a difference between pogroms which, unfortunately,
have occurred now in the Ukraine, and pogroms in Russia
during the tsarist regime. While the tsarist government
had itself instigated and organized pogroms, the Ukrainian
government is in no way responsible for them. In November
1918 I myself saw the proclamations of the government in
the Ukrainian villages and cities which very vehemently
condemned the pogroms and explained to the Ukrainian people
that the Jews are Ukrainian fellow-citizens and brothers to
whom full rights are due. When, however, demoralization
had set in the units of the Ukrainian army, its worst
elements began to plunder. Again the Ukrainian government
rose vigorously against the pogroms, punishing with death
the perpetrators of the pogroms and expressing its sorrow
for the victims. To my regret, I must state that the
latest pogroms which, as far as I know, took place during
the months of February and March were exceedingly serious.
They have been perpetrated by the people of the Black
Hundred and by provocateurs for the purpose of discrediting
the Ukrainian government.
These occurences made a shocking impression upon me, and at
the end of March I tendered the government my resignation.
I recognized that fact that the government was blameless; I
found it, however, hard to occupy an official post in a
country in which my brothers were slaughtered. My
resignation was not accepted and the government requested
me to continue in my official duties, at least abroad. Now
I am one of the four representatives of the Ukraine at the
Peace Conference. There is no anti-Semitic tendency in the
Ukrainian government.
Margolin denies that Jews are playing an important role in the Bolshevist
movement, as it is generally assumed. To be sure, there are also Jews
among the Bolshevists, but among Jews in general the Bolshevists
constitute merely an insignificant minority. The Jewish Zionist and
other patriotic organizations received 70% of the votes at all
elections. There were no Jews at all among the Russian sailors who
played such an important part in the Bolshevist revolution.
The fact that there are seemingly so many Jews among the Bolshevists,
Margolin attributed to the circumstances that Jews distinguish themselves
in all activity by their great energy, and hence the impression arises
that there are many Jews in each political party.
(The Jewish Chronicle, London, May 16, 1919, in F. Pigido (ed.), Material
Concerning Ukrainian-Jewish Relations during the Years of the Revolution
(1917-1921): Collection of Documents and Testimonies by Prominent Jewish
Political Workers, The Ukrainian Information Bureau, Munich, 1956)
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Symon Petliura Jewish delegation 18Jul1919 Provocation of reactionaries and imperialists
The delegation asked for granting of an opportunity to Jewish intellectuals
to work toward strengthening Ukrainian statehood, and for protection of
the Jewish population against the excesses which have taken place as
the result of provocation on the part of various Russian reactionaries and
Polish imperialists who thus wish to discredit the whole Ukrainian cause in
the eyes of Europe.
Reception of a delegation
of Jewish citizens
by Petlura.
On July 17 of this year the Commander-in-Chief Petlura received a
delegation of Jewish citizens at the Office of the Directorate in
Kamenets-Podolsk. The Delegation included: Dr. Meier Kleiderman, the
representative of the Jewish community; Alterman, the representative of
the Zionist organization; Gutman, the representative of the rabbis;
Kreis, the representative of artisans; Bograd, the representative of the
Poalej-Zion Party.
Petlura addressed the Delegation with a short speech in which he declared
that he himself as well as the government were always standing on the
side of the Jewish people, and were waging war against those elements who
incited the unenlightened masses to various excesses against Jews. The
Commander-in-Chief invited the representatives of the Jewish people to a
closer cooperation of both peoples for the good of the Ukrainian State,
for, only with united forces would it be possible to look after the
interests of both peoples, which had always been identical.
The Jewish delegation assured the Supreme Commander that all strata of
the Jewish people, hand-in-hand with the Ukrainian people, would defend
the independent Ukraine, because only a Ukrainian democratic government
could guarantee full rights to the Jews. The delegation asked for
granting of an opportunity to Jewish intellectuals to work toward
strengthening Ukrainian statehood, and for protection of the Jewish
population against the excesses which have taken place as the result of
provocation on the part of various Russian reactionaries and Polish
imperialists who thus wish to discredit the whole Ukrainian cause in the
eyes of Europe.
Petlura pledged himself to apply the severest measures in suppressing the
crimes of the anti-Jewish agitators, and asked the delegation in
particular to exert their influence also upon the Jewish population
behind the battlefront that they should support the Ukrainian Army in its
struggle against the Bolshevists.
(Trudowa Hromada, July 18, 1919.)
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Symon Petliura Decree of Cabinet 18Aug1919 Enemies organize pogroms
The Ukrainian and Jewish peoples both of whom work at the
reconstruction of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic, find themselves in
the face of the common enemies who are trying to sow discord and
anarchy in order to destroy the Ukrainian Republic which they hate.
Decree of the Cabinet Council
of the
Ukrainian Democratic Republic.
August 18, 1919.
(Record of the Proceedings No. 171)
The Cabinet Council, after hearing the report of the Minister for Jewish
Affairs, Mr. P.A. Krasny, on the situation as it appeared in connection
with the anti-Jewish pogroms in the Ukraine – particularly in Kiev and
in connection with the reaction of public opinion abroad, resolve as
follows:
The Ukrainian and Jewish peoples both of whom work at the reconstruction
of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic, find themselves in the face of the
common enemies who are trying to sow discord and anarchy in order to
destroy the Ukrainian Republic which they hate. For this purpose your
enemies organize pogroms, spin provocative news about pogroms in the
Ukraine so as to exploit them for their people – with the help of the
Polish ruling classes, or of the Denikin reactionaries. In deliberately
lying and provocative reports they are changing arbitrarily the places of
the pogroms which are arranged in the Ukraine by the Bolsheviks and by
the reactionary clique who are in close connection with Denikin's and
Polish reactionary circles' secret plans. In mendacious publications and
in public letters addressed to the leading representatives of European
countries, all these happenings are charged to the account of the
government of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic, although its aim is to
suppress vigorously all pogroms.
In view of the fact that such provocations and aims of the Polish and
Denikin reactionaries endanger the struggle for freedom of the Ukrainian
Republic as well as the peaceful coexistence of the peoples of the
Ukraine, the government of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic have set
themselves the most urgent task of doing away with all possibility of
provocations, pogroms or other excesses, and of calling to account all
persons hostile to the Ukrainian State, who are doing the treacherous
pogrom work in the Ukraine.
The Government has decided:
1. To make at once a proposal to the Commander-in-Chief, Petlura that he
issue an order by which all commanders of the respective bodies of
troops, from the lowest to the highest ones, would be called to account
for negligence and tolerating pogrom excesses, and that they would be
immediately arrested as traitors and handed over to a special
court-martial which would impose upon them the severest penalty,
including the death sentence.
2. To issue an order in the name of the Government and in the name of the
Commander-in-Chief to the Ukrainian partisans on the other side of the
battlefront that they also 1. should take a vigorous action against the
instigators of pogroms, 2. fight against particular treacherous pogrom
bands and annihilate them – always remembering that the army of the
Ukrainian Democratic Republic does not tolerate pogroms on its victorious
march and inflicts the severe punishment upon all the guilty ones.
3. To appoint immediately a special government commission with extensive
powers of investigating pogroms and of combating them; the said
commission to be composed of one representative from the following
offices: The Commander-in-Chief, the Inspector General, the Minister of
Justice, the Minister of Internal Affairs, and the Minister for Jewish
Affairs. The Commission should proceed at once to the frontline to the
area of liberated cities and other places of the Ukrainian Democratic
Republic. The Commander-in-Chief should be advised to order an
authorization with full powers to the Commission.
4. Through inspections, the bodies of troops and the commissioners of the
Ukrainian Democratic Republic should be informed about the foreign
provocative work of the enemies of the Ukrainian Republic, who exploit
the pogrom excesses for their own purposes.
5. By means of a special report from the Prime Minister, to inform the
Directorate of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic of this Decree, and to
manifest the Government's firm determination and effort in the direction
of removing completely any possibility of pogroms in the Ukraine.
6. To issue an appropriate proclamation of the government to the people.
7. The Minister for Press and Information should initiate an intensive
campaign against pogrom arrangers; inform the foreign press and foreign
public about the actual state of affairs, and protest against the
outrageous slandering of the government of the Ukrainian Democratic
Republic.
8. The Minister of Justice should at once take steps that all those who
are guilty of pogrom excesses, i.e. those who already have been arrested
as well as those who may be arrested, should be handed over to a special
court.
9. This Decree is to be made public.
(Ukraina, August 21, 1919.)
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Symon Petliura Army Order No. 131 26Aug1919 Do not stain those deeds
It is time for you to understand that the peaceful Jewish population, their
children and women the same as ourselves have been oppressed and
deprived of national freedom. They can not be alienated from us, they
have of old been always with us and they have shared with us their joys
and sorrows.
Army Order of the Supreme Command
of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic,
August 26, 1919.
No. 131
Officers and Soldiers!
It is time for you to realize that the Jews together with the majority of
the Ukrainian population have recognized the evil of the
Bolshevist-Communist invasion, and know already where the truth lies.
The most important Jewish parties, such as: "Bund", "United Jewish
Socialists", "Poalej-Zion" and "People's Party", have decidedly placed
themselves on the side of the Ukrainian independent state and are working
together hand-in-hand for its good.
It is time for you to understand that the peaceful Jewish population,
their children and women the same as ourselves have been oppressed and
deprived of national freedom. They can not be alienated from us, they
have of old been always with us and they have shared with us their joys
and sorrows.
The gallant army which brings brotherhood, equality, and freedom to all
peoples of the Ukraine should not be lending an ear to various
adventurers and provocateurs who long for human blood. Likewise, the
Army should not be a party to bringing a hard lot on the Jews. Whoever
is guilty of permitting such a heavy crime is a traitor and enemy of the
country and must be thrust out of human society.
Officers and soldiers! The whole world cannot but admire our heroic
deeds in the struggle for freedom. Do not stain those deeds – not even
accidentally – by disgraceful actions and do not bring down burning shame
upon our state in the face of the whole world. Our many enemies,
external as well as internal, are already profiting by the pogroms; they
are pointing their fingers at us and inciting against us saying that we
are not worthy of an independent national existence and that we deserve
to be again forcefully harnessed to the yoke of slavery.
I, your Commander-in-Chief, tell you that this very moment the question
of to be or not to be for our independent existence is being decided
before the International Tribunal.
Officers and soldiers! The judgement on this question rests in your
hands, so decide it by showing an armed fist against our enemies
remembering always that a clean cause demands clean hands. Be sure that
a severe and lawful punishment by a people's court will overtake all
enemies of our country; but remember also that vengeance – often the
result of want of careful consideration – is not the way of the Ukrainian
Cossacks. I most positively order that all those who are instigating you
to pogroms be thrust out of the army, and as traitors to the fatherland
be handed over to the court. Let the court punish them according to
their crimes by giving them the severest lawful penalty.
The Government of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic recognizing the harm
done to the state by the pogroms has issued an appeal to the whole
population of the Ukraine to withstand all attempts of the enemies who
might arouse it to anti-Jewish pogroms.
I command the whole army to obey this appeal and to provide for its
widest dissemination among comrades-in-arms and among the population.
This Army Order is to be read to all division, brigades, regiments,
garrisons and squadrons of the Dnieper and Dniester armies, as well as
the partisan detachments.
The Commander-in-Chief:
Petliura.
The Chief of Staff of the Supreme
Commander:
Junakiv.
F. Pigido (ed.), Material Concerning Ukrainian-Jewish Relations during
the Years of the Revolution (1917-1921): Collection of Documents and
Testimonies by Prominent Jewish Political Workers, The Ukrainian
Information Bureau, Munich, 1956.
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Symon Petliura Appeal to Ukrainian Army 27Aug1919 To sow discord among us
Let the death sentence overtake the perpetrators of pogroms and
provocateurs. I demand the strictest discipline from you so that not even
a hair of an innocent's head be touched.
Appeal of the Commander-in-Chief,
Petlura,
to the Ukrainian Army.
Soldiers of the Ukrainian Army!
The Ukrainian Republican People's Army of the Dnieper and Dniester
territories, now united into one army, is advancing victoriously, is
crushing the enemy, gaining each day new territories of the Ukraine to
liberate them from the Bolshevist brigands, bringing with them freedom to
the Ukrainian people as well as the certainty of happy days of living in
a peaceful and orderly state.
The Bolshevist anarchy and maladministration, the horrible Red terror,
the tyranny of the extraordinary inquiry commission [the Cheka] and of
other criminals for whom there is nothing sacred in life – have sapped
our people's strength to the utmost and have flooded our steppes with
human tears and with streams of blood of the innocent.
Amidst a peal of church bells, with bread and salt, with flowers and
tears of joy the weary, oppressed and pillaged Ukrainian people are
greeting you, their valiant warriors, as liberators from the yoke and
from Bolshevist atrocities, as flesh of their flesh and blood of their
blood.
A might national enthusiasm has seized our people at your entry into
villages and towns, and everywhere a festive reception is awaiting you
and all this has been brought about by you, officers and soldiers of the
Ukrainian army!
You are living now through glorious and never to be forgotten moments of
your life, and together with you all peoples inhabiting the Ukrainian
territory are experiencing the same enthusiasm.
The holy crusade for the liberation of the oppressed, regardless of their
nationality, for the rule of law and order under freedom and democracy
and the independence of our republic – these are the ideals in this
struggle.
The union of all democratic forces of all nationalities in the Ukraine,
standing for the independence of our Republic, and their participation in
the reconstruction of the state will warrant our victory over our
enemies, and will guarantee to us an independent life subject to no one.
Our enemies, however, are not sleeping but only watching our every step
in order to sow discord among us in one way or another, and thus to
frustrate the immediate realization of our people's efforts.
The Bolshevists themselves consider the Ukraine Moscow's inheritance
with the difference that formerly it was the heritage of black Moscow,
now of a Red one.
They see that the end of their rule in the Ukraine is already approaching
because the Ukrainian people themselves have risen against them: but they
do not give up yet their hope of subjugating the Ukrainian masses. By
provocations for which they are spending enormous sums of money they want
to divide us from within, hiring criminal elements who are inciting our
soldiers to all sorts of outrages and pogroms against the innocent Jewish
population; in this way they want to stamp our soldiers as
pogrom-mongers, although these soldiers are bringing liberty to all
peoples of the Ukraine.
Our enemies intend thus to split the Ukrainian and Jewish laboring masses
whose ways, in fact, have been bound together by three hundred years of
Russian tsarist yoke.
Our national army must bring equality, brotherhood and freedom to the
Ukrainian as well as the Jewish citizens who are also supporting actively
the government of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic. All their parties,
i.e.: Bund, Obyednantsi, Poalej-Zion and People's Party are standing on
the principles of the independence of the Ukraine, and are participating
in the reconstruction of the republic.
I know myself how the representatives of the Jewish population have
helped our army and supported our legal republican government.
The enemies of our state, the Bolshevists, are shooting down not only the
Ukrainian but also the Jewish people, depriving the others of the barest
means of living.
I have the highest esteem for the sacrifices made during this war upon
the altar of the fatherland by the Jewish population.
From the reports by the commanders of our brave divisions and corps as
well from reports by State Inspectors I have already learned that the
Jewish population brought help to our wounded and sick soldiers, in the
hospitals which had been built hastily 3-5 kilometers behind the
battlefronts.
I have been touched deeply by tears of thankfulness in the eyes of our
soldiers for the loving care and human aid given them by Jews, and I have
noted with satisfaction how the soldiers of our army were standing guard
at the shops and stores of Jews in order to protect them against
plunderers.
The restoration of a bridge at Starokonstantyniv – which had been
destroyed by the Bolshevists – by the Jewish population in an exceedingly
short time, as well as their help with foodstuffs and underwear testify
also to the loyal conduct of Jews in relation to our army.
I am convinced and I ardently hope that in the future such help on the
part of Jews will occur ever more frequently and that they will continue
to further the cause of peace in our country.
The Minister for Jewish Affairs has by a series of measures already
exercised some influence upon the Bolshevist circles of Jews so that many
of them no longer support Bolshevism, since they consider it now to be
their ruin.
Together with you I call upon the Jewish citizens to go with us and to
support wholeheartedly our army and our government; then we shall be able
to affirm that the government of the Ukrainian Democratic Republic and
you, its army, will finish that great responsible work which you are now
doing – destroying the power of the Bolshevists and building up our
independent republic in which each nationality enjoys full rights and a
peaceful life.
Officers and soldiers of the Ukrainian Army! The Ukrainian-Jewish
laboring masses see in you their liberation, and future generations will
not forget your services rendered to them; history will with pride record
on its pages your achievements in this struggle. Beware of provocations,
and have no mercy on provocateurs or on those who execute pogroms, or
incite the weakest among you to this action.
Let the death sentence overtake the perpetrators of pogroms and
provocateurs. I demand the strictest discipline from you so that not
even a hair of an innocent's head be touched.
Bear in mind that you are the elite sons of your great nation which wants
to live its independent life and to be subjugated by no one, and
therefore keep an unflinching watch on its interests as well as on the
interests of all those who help you and are well-disposed to you and to
the liberation of your people.
Those who are guilty before the Ukrainian people and before the republic,
no matter what their nationality, shall suffer the severest punishment
according to law prevailing in the territory of the Ukrainian republic;
to the innocent, however, you must bring liberation from the hated
Bolshevist yoke.
The Republic's and my own cordial thanks to and high esteem for your
martial bravery, devotion, and self-sacrifice which your offer upon the
altar of the fatherland, while liberating our Ukraine and the
nationalities living there – including the Jews – from the Bolshevists.
May God help us in the great and sacred cause of liberating the nations
from the heavy yoke of the Bolshevists!
August 27, 1919
Commander-in-Chief: Petlura.
(Ukraina, September 2, 1919.)
F. Pigido (ed.), Material Concerning Ukrainian-Jewish Relations during
the Years of the Revolution (1917-1921): Collection of Documents and
Testimonies by Prominent Jewish Political Workers, The Ukrainian
Information Bureau, Munich, 1956, pp. 70-72.
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Arnold Margolin The Ukraine and the Policy of Entente 1921 Russian and Ukrainian pogroms compared
If the beginning of the demoralization of the Ukrainian army was at its tail,
by Denikin's army the poison of demoralization came from the head.
EXTRACTS
from the book by Arnold Margolin
"The Ukraine and the policy of the Entente"
(Memorandum by a Jew and a citizen).
Publisher C. Efron. Berlin, 1921. Chapter XXIV. Pages 310-315.
Pogroms of the period of the Directorate, and of Denikin's Army. Parallels.
– Nations and Governments.
I have before me the report on pogroms, prepared by the Relief Committee
for the Victims of Pogroms, at the Russian Red Cross in Kiev. It is
stated in the report that there were no pogroms during the rule of the
Central Council, or of Skoropadsky, or during the first two months of the
Directorate's rule. Pogroms began after defeats that had been inflicted
upon the troops of the Directorate by the Bolsheviks. The heavier the
defeats and the farther Petlura's army was compelled to retreat, the more
cruel was their vengeance upon the innocent Jewish population whom they
identified with Communists. The slogan: "down with Jews and Communists,"
or "all Jews are Communists" were raised throughout the Ukraine and
provoked pogroms everywhere.
This explanation of the origin of pogroms is quite identical with the
statement made in Temnytsky's and Vasylko's telegram of August 1, 1919.
In the course of centuries the entire population of Russia had been
listening to accusations by the government of Jews being responsible for
all the evils in the world. The ignorant masses believed even the
legends about the ritual murder of Christian children by Jews, while even
the "specialists" in this subject were declaring that Jews kill only
boys. Karab-Tchevsky tells us in the first part of his memoirs ("What My
Eyes Saw") that his mother had already in his childhood read to him the
New Testament, and when it came to the torturing of Jesus Christ, his
nurse or housemaid would exclaim: "the hideous Jews, they surely killed
Christ by torture!" (p. 23).
The pogroms of the years 1880 in Kishinev and Homel, came as the result
of false rumors and of promises of exemption from punishment for
plundering during three days. This time, however, the participation of
Jews in the Bolshevist movement was no more a rumor, but a fact which it
was very easy to exaggerate. On the other side, the impunity for
plundering lasted this time not only three days, but indefinitely on
account of the absence of any authority that could stop the plundering.
For, what authority could exist during the panic of retreat before
Trotsky's army? ... Under such conditions a favorable atmosphere was
created for the rapacious instincts of the demoralized segments of the
army, as well as for the development of the ideological barbarity of
Semesenko and for the provocateurs from the Russian Black-Hundred camp,
who were pogrommongers by conviction and wished at the same time to
discredit the Ukrainian movement by branding it as being guilty of
pogroms.
All this, of course, is not justification, but only one of many
explanations of the origin of pogroms during the period of the
Directorate.
Quite a different picture is displayed by the comparison of this period
of pogroms with the pogroms by Denikin's army. Here is no question of
retreat and of chaos that is connected with retreat. On the contrary,
the more successful the advance, the more organized and stronger is the
propaganda from above and the more according to plan the pogroms are
developed. If the beginning of the demoralization of the Ukrainian army
was at its tail, by Denikin's army the poison of demoralization came from
the head. As we have seen already, the Denikin officers openly declared
that they were fighting not against the Bolsheviks, but against the Jews.
